Soldier77 - I believe it was last year they merged Alaska into the US branch and this 9-1, Hawaii also came under the US branch. I think also last year, they moved the Turks & Caicos islands under the US branch.
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
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96
Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org
by eric356 inive been thinking about the future of the watchtower organization and the challenges it faces in coming decades.
its difficult to address the issue without allowing personal feelings affect the analysis.
many people seem to think that the society will collapse fairly soon, based mostly on the fact that the person dislikes the leadership or cant understand how others can believe the doctrine.
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96
Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org
by eric356 inive been thinking about the future of the watchtower organization and the challenges it faces in coming decades.
its difficult to address the issue without allowing personal feelings affect the analysis.
many people seem to think that the society will collapse fairly soon, based mostly on the fact that the person dislikes the leadership or cant understand how others can believe the doctrine.
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Doubting Bro
streets76 - I know the board has discussed the LDS model and I think that's a great example of how a wacky, high control sort of religion can reinvent themselves to be more mainstream, maintain high retention levels, and make tons of money yet still keep most of their non-mainstream beliefs. Their polygamy issue is similar to the WTS blood teaching. It's something so wacky that it offends the mainstream public.
If GB 2.0 was smart, they would move in this direction. But eric brings out a good point that throws a wrentch in the works. They think the speak for God, that God is using them directly and approves of the current structure. So, the changes they've made from a doctrinal standpoint have had no way out. The positive (from a business standpoint) changes had more to do with their printing operations, consolidating branches and the like. That was low hanging fruit.
There's still some of that to be had (pushing printing of KMs and study WTs to the congo level via pdf files, dumping the awake, etc) but they will run out of those types of profit improvements in the next 5-10 years. Will they drastically transform? It's kind of interesting to watch but remember, they'll do what they need to do to survive.
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443
Generation Teaching - Everyone is speechless?
by Red Piller inmaybe the effect of this change is bigger than realized?
in 1995, it was discussed (positively) by everybody, during the week we studied the wt.
one elder stepped down and was looked down upon.
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Doubting Bro
When did "faithful and discreet slave" become a title? It's not a title no more so than the "rich man" in Jesus' parable about the rich man and Lazarus is a title.
Since you're such an expert in English, clearly you realize that Jesus' parable about the rich man or about a group being a faithful slave is descriptive in the Bible. However, the WT capitalizes the pharse Faithful and Discreet Slave in their publications. So, by capitalizing they are making it a title.
As for the generation thing, you certainly put a lot of words out there to attempt to explain such a simple concept. Under your line of reasoning (and the WTS) I am of the same generation as my great grandfather because my life overlapped about 12 years or so with his. He was born in 1890.
Elderelite asks a vaild question. If the fulfillment of Matt 24 was a duel prophesy which had it's first fulfillment in the days leading up to 70 AD which resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem and it's second fulfillment starting in 1914, why doesn't the timeframe match up. Maybe not exactly to the day, but certainly within a similar frame. The fact is that it's been 96 years, more than twice the amount of time. So, either Jesus meant one thing in 33 AD (or CE if you perfer) and something totally different in 1914, or the 1914 date is inaccurate.
Why would Jesus change the meaning of such an easily understood term?
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96
Challenges Facing the Watchtower Org
by eric356 inive been thinking about the future of the watchtower organization and the challenges it faces in coming decades.
its difficult to address the issue without allowing personal feelings affect the analysis.
many people seem to think that the society will collapse fairly soon, based mostly on the fact that the person dislikes the leadership or cant understand how others can believe the doctrine.
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Doubting Bro
I agree with your analysis eric356. In addition to point 4, the retention rate among young JWs is horrific with them losing over 60% according to Pew. So not only are they facing a brain drain in terms of a diversity of experience that adult converts would bring, but they're facing an aging population. Couple that with trend among the 2nd and 3rd generation JW males to not "reach out" and you're looking at the low level leadership positions of elders getting older and older by the day. They'll need to adjust to that as well. I think that's why they consolidated the book study.
neverending - I agree that what you've described certainly could happen but that will depend on who the move onto the GB. Right now there are what, 8 members? I think this is the lowest number in 30 years. They will likely appoint some more, maybe after Barr dies. The new appointees could change the dynamic. But, in order for your senario to play out (in my opinion) is to have someone very creative like Franz. And, that's really what upper level management in the WTS is sorely lacking. Just take a look at the latest "generation" teaching. It's so backward that it really doesn't make sense to even the most devoted JWs. Now, Franz was nuts, but at least when you read his work, it was at least creative in a kind of conspiracy theory sort of way. Wacky but with just enough logic that some would buy it!
I continue to believe that while the WTS will look much different in 20 years, they will still be around reeking havoc.
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51
My Dad's passing
by happyexjw inquite a while ago i wrote about my dad who has been living with prostate cancer for 13 years with secondry bone cancer for the last 2 years.
we all thought he was going to leave us back in april when he had a bad chest infection.
i was talking about wanting to be able to say some words at his funeral.
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Doubting Bro
My deepest condolences. It's crazy that your uncle and aunt are acting that way and to me shows just how much this religion can amplify someone's naturally bad tendencies. Interestingly enough, they act the exact way that they claim those "in the world" act. I'm especially thinking of 2 Tim 3 where it says that in the "last days" folks would act poorly and one of the things listed was "no natural affection" (vs 3).
How can they justify treating anyone that badly when their own religion (on paper at least) tells them to comfort those grieving? There's even an exception (can't remember where - don't have the WTL at work) that allows JWs to drop the shunning at furnerals to comfort the mourning. It's just insane. They're so self righteous they won't even follow the instructions "mother" has provided. These two are a piece of work.
I'm so sorry they made a bad situation worse. They sound like the type of people that you're better off not having in your life anyway.
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55
Elders Can Hide their Own Sins from the Past-Yet Continue as Elders? Read
by flipper ini was shocked ( though i probably shouldn't have been ) when reading the new elders manual concerning whether elders have to confess up about former sins from a few years earlier.
notice this on pg.
38 , paragraph 19 : it states, " if it comes to light or an appointed brother confesses that he has committed a disfellowshipping offense years in the past : the body of elders may determine he can continue to serve if the following is true : the immorality or other serious wrongdoing occured more than a few years ago, and he is genuinely repentant, recognizing that he should have come forward immediately when he sinned.
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Doubting Bro
OM - Thanks for pointing that out. I missed that point. So, they dropped the double standard which is reasonable. Sir82 - exactly! Frankly, the code is pretty strong now because most of the kids don't really believe. Not sure if the elder's headaches would increase though. Seems to me that it's a whole lot easier to have them just not rat on each other than to deal with all the JCs that pop up around the under 25 group. Also, the counsel by 2 elders is much less time consuming than putting a JC together. Don't ask, don't tell!!!
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17
Menlo Park Kingdom Hall - Part Deux
by Juan Viejo2 inthis message is important!
timing is critical!.
those of you who have read my previous postings about the lawsuit over the remodel and potential sale of the menlo park, california kingdom hall are aware that i have been trying desperately to contact someone in the area who can help me get more information on this case.. .
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Doubting Bro
I think more of these sorts of situations are out there, it's just that the local BOE either 1) figures its not worth it and caves or 2) the CO gets them removed on some trumped up charges and changes the dynamics of the BOE to tilt in his favor. I've seen it first hand, although not necessarily over KH projects. I know that the RBC (with the COs blessings and encouragement) can be quite heavy handed in "suggesting" inprovements, upgrades or new builds.
To see a couple of loyal, long term elders who had no beef with the WTS get to the point of actually suing their "brothers" is significant in my mind. I have no doubt that these guys will be df'ed for this, it's just a matter of time. But, I wonder how the local congo will view that action.
This is the major problem with the WTS. They feel they can do whatever they want to whoever they want and noone will stand up to them. Hell, they're speaking for God. It's this mentality that is counter-productive and will bite them in the butt.
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55
Elders Can Hide their Own Sins from the Past-Yet Continue as Elders? Read
by flipper ini was shocked ( though i probably shouldn't have been ) when reading the new elders manual concerning whether elders have to confess up about former sins from a few years earlier.
notice this on pg.
38 , paragraph 19 : it states, " if it comes to light or an appointed brother confesses that he has committed a disfellowshipping offense years in the past : the body of elders may determine he can continue to serve if the following is true : the immorality or other serious wrongdoing occured more than a few years ago, and he is genuinely repentant, recognizing that he should have come forward immediately when he sinned.
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Doubting Bro
yeah, it always seemed to me to be unfair that elders would actually be held to a lower standard than a rank and file publisher. Double standard for sure.
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17
Menlo Park Kingdom Hall - Part Deux
by Juan Viejo2 inthis message is important!
timing is critical!.
those of you who have read my previous postings about the lawsuit over the remodel and potential sale of the menlo park, california kingdom hall are aware that i have been trying desperately to contact someone in the area who can help me get more information on this case.. .
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Doubting Bro
BTTT
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17
Menlo Park Kingdom Hall - Part Deux
by Juan Viejo2 inthis message is important!
timing is critical!.
those of you who have read my previous postings about the lawsuit over the remodel and potential sale of the menlo park, california kingdom hall are aware that i have been trying desperately to contact someone in the area who can help me get more information on this case.. .
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Doubting Bro
This is a really interesting story. I scanned over the complaint and this situation is pretty ugly. But, given the heavy handed way the RBC deals with local KHs, I'm not surprised.
Good work on sniffing out this lawsuit and hope you're able to get more of the backstory. It could be that since it's in litigation, the parties need to keep that on the downlow for now.
I wonder how quickly these former elders who were allegedly removed for complaining are df'ed? I'm sure this would be "brazen" conduct, wouldn't it? The WTS will probably wait unitl the lawsuit is done before they df them.
Hopefully these guys will then sue the individuals including elders and the CO personally for defamation when they are df'ed.
If these guys are reading this - GOOD LUCK on the suit!